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Thread: Spark plugs soaked with oil, high compression, piston rings bad?

  1. #21
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    Turbo skewed, could this introduce massive amounts of oil to intake?

    What if my skewed turbo is to blame and it is pushing large amounts of oil to my intake parts? After all any parts related to intake were full of oil, especially TIK and intercooler.

    Should I temporarily remove TIK and add a temporary air filter directly to throttle body, then start the car for a while and see if smoking stops? I already tried with temporary air filter bypassing turbo's output to intercooler but TIK including its two oil pipes were still connected to the engine. Any ideas on would this be good thing to try out?

    PS. Engine has never made any bad sounds so there is a slight chance that larger broken turbo parts did not end up into the combustion chamber. A quick look at the intake valves looks good.
    2005 Smart Roadster, 2004 Porsche Carrera 4, 2009 Toyota Sienna

  2. #22
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    Here's an image from my high quality endoscope which unfortunately is a bit too large for Smart's spark plugs to enter inside the cyls. Nothing much to say of these but ..

    Smart_Roadster_Cylinders_Endoscope.jpg
    2005 Smart Roadster, 2004 Porsche Carrera 4, 2009 Toyota Sienna

  3. #23
    All this time you are spending on the internet asking questions would be better spent IMHO stripping the engine down
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Performance View Post
    All this time you are spending on the internet asking questions would be better spent IMHO stripping the engine down
    Point taken but I am not a pro car mechanic and full rebuild means multiple full time workdays for me (2-3x more time required than someone who has already done this before), which is fine if that is required as I enjoy doing this on my spare time. However, I'd like to avoid opening engine completely if there is a way to diagnose it with a fraction of the time. Forums such as these are usually full of people who might have good ideas to save time.

    Disabling TIK / Turbo oil passageways IMHO would be worth to try if it is reasonably easy to do.
    2005 Smart Roadster, 2004 Porsche Carrera 4, 2009 Toyota Sienna

  5. #25
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    As I said before - there are hardly any roadster owners active on this forum.

    You should be asking these questions on theroadster.net
    ==============================
    2004 Roadster-Coupe SB2 Brabus
    2005 ForTwo Brabus Numeric
    2014 Skoda Yeti 4x4 DSG
    ex 2002 City Coupe 600cc Pulse
    ex 2003 City Coupe 700cc Passion
    ==============================

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 137699 View Post
    As I said before - there are hardly any roadster owners active on this forum.

    You should be asking these questions on theroadster.net
    I appreciated it but that forum seems inactive. Nevertheless, 451 and 451 engines are quite similar. I have a few hours more this Sunday to play with this, perhaps I'll just pop the head out or try to figure out a quicker way to try it out without turbo pushing oil to intake.

    Thanks for all the answers so far
    2005 Smart Roadster, 2004 Porsche Carrera 4, 2009 Toyota Sienna

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    Abnormal (higher) than normal compression results become because the cylinders are soaked with oil. Oil is giving false positive results.
    If there was damage that pressure would have been released. No mentioned sign of alloy (impeller) debris on plug tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    What if my skewed turbo is to blame and it is pushing large amounts of oil to my intake parts? After all any parts related to intake were full of oil, especially TIK and intercooler.
    How many posts were there intimating turbo failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    Should I temporarily remove TIK and add a temporary air filter directly to throttle body, then start the car for a while and see if smoking stops? I already tried with temporary air filter bypassing turbo's output to intercooler but TIK including its two oil pipes were still connected to the engine. Any ideas on would this be good thing to try out?
    I presumed that is what you already did but with the engine so full of oil exactly how long do you run it before declaring it OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post

    PS. Engine has never made any bad sounds so there is a slight chance that larger broken turbo parts did not end up into the combustion chamber. A quick look at the intake valves looks good.
    Any debris is probably in the intercooler. Plugs clean and.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    Here's an image from my high quality endoscope which unfortunately is a bit too large for Smart's spark plugs to enter inside the cyls. Nothing much to say of these but ..

    Smart_Roadster_Cylinders_Endoscope.jpg
    ....nothing showing there.

    If it were mine, I'd quit needlessly ripping the engine apart, get a turbo for it (it needs one) clean or replace the intercooler/entire induction system - and run it. On the basis that the engine itself is probably fine and if you find it isn't - then you can strip it then.

    Logic says three cylinders simultaneously flooded with oil were flooded from one source - turbo. Now the turbo damage has been identified (it should have been in five minutes - did you even look at it?) it is obvious it caused it all.

  8. #28
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    Thanks Pinger for an excellent answer. Logic does dictate that it is related to turbo due to all cyls being flooded with oil. I have not yet spend much time with the engine, would be great to try replacing the turbo before ripping it apart. I'll start sourcing for a turbo, as you stated, I'll need one in any case.

    Previously I tested the engine for 5 minutes last time, revved it to around 3.5k easily, no abnormal sound but it continued to smoke.

    I'll try to inspect all intake related parts and flush the intercooler. I'd guess best method would be to flush it both directions with battery water using low pressure like strong shop vacuum which I got in my garage.

    Thanks again!
    2005 Smart Roadster, 2004 Porsche Carrera 4, 2009 Toyota Sienna

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    Thanks Pinger for an excellent answer. Logic does dictate that it is related to turbo due to all cyls being flooded with oil. I have not yet spend much time with the engine, would be great to try replacing the turbo before ripping it apart. I'll start sourcing for a turbo, as you stated, I'll need one in any case.
    Turbo is always first port of call when plumes of smoke and power loss are the first symptoms. The oil carry over was predictable. What wasn't was the mode of failure, ie, jamming up. But whether failed bearings or entry of debris caused the impeller failure is yet to be established - but needs to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    Previously I tested the engine for 5 minutes last time, revved it to around 3.5k easily, no abnormal sound but it continued to smoke.
    It will take an eternity to burn off all the oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    I'll try to inspect all intake related parts and flush the intercooler. I'd guess best method would be to flush it both directions with battery water using low pressure like strong shop vacuum which I got in my garage.

    Thanks again!
    Back flush only. I'd connect it to a garden hose and leave water running through it for a few hours at least. It lay on top of some porous fabric (sacking or similar) to act as a filter to trap alloy fragments as some indication of what entered it and for when it is finally clear of (any) debris. I may instead opt to replace it for safety's sake. Gauging the debris that departed the turbo would influence my thinking as small alloy particles could if they got to the engine accumulate on the valve seating areas necessitating subsequent (avoidable) head removal. So far, it appears you have gotten away with it!

    edit PS.
    Rethink: I'd first of all back flush with some petrol to wash out the oil and see what else was released. Any signs of alloy debris and replacing the IC would be much safer. To have to further open up the engine and reseal will be costlier than the price of an intercooler.
    Last edited by pinger; 24-04-2015 at 11:32 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domiac View Post
    I appreciated it but that forum seems inactive.
    You're having a laugh surely? Theroadster.net is about THE most active UK smart forum - despite it being only for one model!
    ==============================
    2004 Roadster-Coupe SB2 Brabus
    2005 ForTwo Brabus Numeric
    2014 Skoda Yeti 4x4 DSG
    ex 2002 City Coupe 600cc Pulse
    ex 2003 City Coupe 700cc Passion
    ==============================

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