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Thread: 451 diesel gearbox update

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Burnley
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    I have had two gearboxes in and had both those gearboxes apart. Both are like new inside with no wear visible anywhere so I don't think the failed actuator caused any damage inside.

    There is no excessive drag and the clutch teaches fine including drag point. If I had any observation it would be that the revs need to be higher before the clutch starts to engage when you set off, I put this down to it being a diesel and I am only really familiar with my 450 petrol. Unfortunately for whatever reason, there is no rev counter or clock pod in this diesel.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    I have had two gearboxes in and had both those gearboxes apart. Both are like new inside with no wear visible anywhere so I don't think the failed actuator caused any damage inside.
    Externally? Overloaded electrics? (Clutching at straws?!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    There is no excessive drag and the clutch teaches fine including drag point. If I had any observation it would be that the revs need to be higher before the clutch starts to engage when you set off, I put this down to it being a diesel and I am only really familiar with my 450 petrol. Unfortunately for whatever reason, there is no rev counter or clock pod in this diesel.
    Possibly because of it being a diesel as you say. Manual turbo diesels I've driven require some concentration setting off. No boost (and very little torque) and a massive flywheel to spin up - they are easily stalled.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    Possibly because of it being a diesel as you say. Manual turbo diesels I've driven require some concentration setting off. No boost (and very little torque) and a massive flywheel to spin up - they are easily stalled.
    Diesels I know, it is what I used to specialise in from the 70s. When the first Diesel Golf came out I went off to Belgium to buy one as they did not release them in this country to begin with. It was seriously traumatic having no foreign language of any sort, first trip out of England, buying newspapers and ringing the numbers in the for sale section until I found some that spoke English This was pre EU so lots of paperwork and import duty then the work started putting the steering wheel in the right place.

    I still do a lot on diesels but they are nowhere near as much trouble with high pressure pumps and electronic injectors.

  4. #94
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    Mar 2012
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    I have just written down all the happenings in a list and contemplated them and without anything that Star is telling me, just looking at the symptoms this car has a sticking clutch that is not clearing when disengaged. That fits every single symptom perfectly.

    Early in the thread I mentioned that three notches (6mm) was an awful lot and hard to achieve so I stuck with two. I reckon it has to be three.

    That's my prediction. I will attack it tomorrow with that in mind and report back.

  5. #95
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    Mar 2012
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    On the 450 you can teach the clutch and you can teach the bite point of the clutch in the Star software. This starts the engine and listens for the slight drop in revs as the clutch is engaged on a neutral gearbox. There does not seem to be an option for doing this on the 451, all you can do is teach the clutch.

    Am I missing it or is it really missing in Star for the 451?

  6. #96
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    Mar 2012
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    Burnley
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    So I took off the clutch actuator and learned a few things.

    It is not entirely clear how this pile of crap is supposed to work but for sure it either was not working properly when I got the car or it is not working properly now.

    I found some instructions that told me to mount the actuator but leave the bolts loose, push it to the clutch arm and then move it 3.5 marks towards the engine. At that time the plastic part sticking out of the actuator would not move and no way could I push it that far, I just did not have the strength or a bar big enough. The 6 ft 1.5 inch steel bar was failing completely so I left it 2 marks pushed towards the engine.

    Next time I changed the box the black plastic part that came out of the actuator was all floppy and could be pushed in and out of the actuator easily and I was worried something had gone wrong inside it. I ripped it apart and have now concluded that the first time I installed it it was jammed up. It works as the diagram attached.

    clutch.jpg

    It relies entirely on friction between the two rollers and the plastic box that sticks out of the actuator. There are steel inserts inside the plastic box that do seem to wear easily and effectively render the actuator scrap.

    Operation is much the same as the 450 one with the addition of this pathetic auto adjust mechanism. I can feel a mod coming on where a steel bar is inserted and in two years I cut 1/8 of an inch off it as the clutch wears.
    Last edited by Mjolinor; 13-12-2016 at 06:20 AM.

  7. #97
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    Nov 2007
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    Does clutch itself on 451 Smarts not have the built in auto wear compensating mechanism? It is the spring loaded cam mechanism which sits between clutch pressure plate and diaphragm.

    There are good photos of a dissected clutch actuator on Smart of America. http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/for...ge=1&_k=okwro8
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  8. #98
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    Nov 2007
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    Photos of 451 clutch actuator push rod borrowed from Smart of America forum:







    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Is spring in front of wedge roller mechanism relatively weak? Asking because I assume function of that spring is solely to ensure there is no slack anywhere ensuring all balls are fully seated in sockets and release bearing is engaged and spinning with engine rotations.

    Also wondering about the two rectangular white pieces at each side of wedge. Are these elastomer buffers?
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  10. #100
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    Nov 2007
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    Are there multiple pairs of grooves inside the outer female part of rod where the rollers may lock when expanded by wedge?
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

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