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Thread: CDI thermostat (Euro5)

  1. #1
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    CDI thermostat (Euro5)

    My thermostat is knackered and I cannot find one anywhere. It seems that it is electric rather than the opening being controlled by the water temperature it is controlled form a heating element by the ECU depending on the temperature input reading it gets.

    One has to wonder what these car designers do with the brains they had at birth. If the temperature sensor fails and reads low we now have the situation where the car will overheat because the thermostat uses that sensor to decide whether to open or not. Damned, that is ridiculous, thermostats have worked for ever with no problems.

    Any road up. Has anyone seen one for sale? This is what it looks like: http://roughtop.co.uk/john/thermostat/

    At the moment it is looking like it is getting a standard Smart thermostat in and a resistor to fool the ECU into thinking it has the heated type.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    My thermostat is knackered and I cannot find one anywhere. It seems that it is electric rather than the opening being controlled by the water temperature it is controlled form a heating element by the ECU depending on the temperature input reading it gets.

    One has to wonder what these car designers do with the brains they had at birth. If the temperature sensor fails and reads low we now have the situation where the car will overheat because the thermostat uses that sensor to decide whether to open or not. Damned, that is ridiculous, thermostats have worked for ever with no problems.

    Any road up. Has anyone seen one for sale? This is what it looks like: http://roughtop.co.uk/john/thermostat/

    At the moment it is looking like it is getting a standard Smart thermostat in and a resistor to fool the ECU into thinking it has the heated type.
    If it's any consolation, thermostat on EmilysMum's Citroen C3 is a motorised valve controlled by the engine's ECU. The 'stat itself was 170 ...... all in IIRC it cost me 250 fitted!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post

    One has to wonder what these car designers do with the brains they had at birth. If the temperature sensor fails and reads low we now have the situation where the car will overheat because the thermostat uses that sensor to decide whether to open or not.
    Might its default setting be open (in the absence of any signal from a temp sensor) - only closing when instructed by a cold reading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    Damned, that is ridiculous, thermostats have worked for ever with no problems.
    Agreed. Cars are getting complicated beyond any benefit to the end user and worse, the auto industry shows signs of eschewing simpler technology simply because it can command a higher price (and profit) on complex products. The industry needs to be locked in a dark room with its filthy diesel engine to contemplate just how shambolic its behaviour has become.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmilysDad View Post
    If it's any consolation, thermostat on EmilysMum's Citroen C3 is a motorised valve controlled by the engine's ECU. The 'stat itself was 170 ...... all in IIRC it cost me 250 fitted!!
    That's taking the piss.

    Diesel engines which are exorbitantly expensive when they go wrong and the head has to be removed to rectify are the last engine in the world to require DOHC. But that's what they have. Cams (two if independent variable timing is required) could be mounted high in the block with (carbon fibre if necessary) pushrods and rockers and the cost of head removal would be slashed - as would engine height - to the benefit of pedestrian protection (which, to achieve, they are now mounting the timing gear at the engine's rear in longitudinal applications). With vertical valves the head to block interface could be dispensed with removing the troublesome head gasket.
    This will never happen though so entrenched in their ways they are blind to anything that challenges their orthodoxy. DOHC and a rev limit of 4000rpm - taking the piss.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    Might its default setting be open (in the absence of any signal from a temp sensor) - only closing when instructed by a cold reading?
    From what I gather (Tolsens input) and from the error message when it is unplugged (heater disconnected) it is just a heater that melts the wax that the water normally melts. Really essentially technological improvement NOT.

  6. #6
    Have a look at MAGAL . based in reading in berkshire. An ex smart owner works there. If you find what you need let me know and I will ask him if he has any "available as demo"
    Www.BigPerformance.Co.Uk

    020 328 REMAP (02032873627)
    07702948467
    STAR diagnostics. Remapping. Dyno.
    Key codingTAN codes. SCN codes. Body shop. Trimming. Crash repairs

  7. #7
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    It does look like the sort of company that would make them but no matching pics.

    I can't get over how absurd it is. Thermostats have never been a source for problems, they just work and if they stop the temp gauge tells you so now an over complicated lump of electronics and control systems for no gain just more money out.

    It is going to get a normal one in. It looks a lot easier than the 450 to replace because the engine is slightly further back in the hatch than the 450 is. This makes it harder to get at the Lambda sensors and stuff around the back of the engine but much easier to get at the stuff on the top of the engine

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post

    I can't get over how absurd it is. Thermostats have never been a source for problems, they just work and if they stop the temp gauge tells you so now an over complicated lump of electronics and control systems for no gain just more money out.
    The auto industry is now oblivious to mechanical solutions, going straight to electronics at every turn. Air filter replacement that requires coding - that means in years to come cars running with filthy air filters as who with a secondhand car of little value is going to pay main dealer rates for coding? Sledders have perfected CVT and run it with purely mechanical control. The auto industry opts for electro hydraulic control and has failed to provide a reliable system. More time looking outwith its own industry as to how things are done rather than running straight to the electronics lab would serve us all better.

  9. #9
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    OK, got the old one off and it is indeed knackered. Pictures of the totally crap thermostat that they used to fit and the new uber totally crap thermostat that they fitted to mine.

    http://roughtop.co.uk/john/thermostat/1.jpg
    http://roughtop.co.uk/john/thermostat/2.jpg

    The damage to the rubber was not done by me and the thermostat has never been apart before. I wonder if this car has had 8 years of running at 55c maximum, without a temperature gauge who would know.

  10. #10
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    It is difficult to tell from the out of focus photo what that torn piece of rubber is meant to do.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

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