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Thread: 450 Transmission noise becoming unbearable

  1. #1
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    450 Transmission noise becoming unbearable

    Noise is gradually getting worse and I suspect a worn out bearing.



    Three gear shaft bearings are rubber sealed 2RS, left end of input shaft and both ends of cluster gear shaft (the shaft that has sync rings). Both differential bearings are open and unsealed. See below sectional view for details:



    Three of the shaft bearings are reported to be standard 6304. Three are 2RS and one, on flywheel end of input shaft is open without seals (this one has larger ID and is not yet identified).



    Above photo shows a knackered 6304 2RS bearing removed from Dieselkiki's Canadian 450 Cdi. He stated the bearing was bone dry and obviously had failed due to lack of lubrication.

    For that reason I intend to renew fitting unsealed bearings. Can be sourced for as little as 1.57 each including delivery.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  2. #2
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    When you have your box open....if it's possible to ascertain if the drum rotation (in degrees) is the same for each ratio change... can you please inform?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    When you have your box open....if it's possible to ascertain if the drum rotation (in degrees) is the same for each ratio change... can you please inform?
    Why do you need that info? Out of curiosity?

    Using my WinStar diagnostics kit I have read raw data from drum turning angle sensor and corresponding gear position:
    TAS - gear
    978 - R
    897 - N
    822 - 1
    722 - 2
    555 - 3
    352 - 4
    226 - 5
    67 - 6
    This means gear shift pattern is R N 1 2 3 4 5 6.
    I also found drum does not move when moving gear stick into neutral at speed. Clutch is just moved to "off" position. Drum will shift into the most appropriate gear for the speed as car slows down when gear stick is in neutral. Confirmed all of the above by test driving with diagnostics attached.





    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Confirmed all of the above by test driving with diagnostics attached
    Sounds safe
    You're so money supermarket and you don't even know it!

  5. #5
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    One of the good things about the 451 is that you can get the drive shafts out of the gearbox without dismantling any suspension bits. Can you do that on the 450?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinaldo_is_spam View Post
    Sounds safe
    Safe enough along a farm track.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    One of the good things about the 451 is that you can get the drive shafts out of the gearbox without dismantling any suspension bits. Can you do that on the 450?
    I think they are removed same on both models: Slacken off drive shaft centre bolts. Rear end on axle stands. Remove rear wheels each side. Disconnect X frame from deDion tube each side. Pull out drive shafts. So all you need do is remove 5 bolts, a wheel and a nut each side before removing drive shaft.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Why do you need that info? Out of curiosity?

    Using my WinStar diagnostics kit I have read raw data from drum turning angle sensor and corresponding gear position:
    TAS - gear
    978 - R
    897 - N
    822 - 1
    722 - 2
    555 - 3
    352 - 4
    226 - 5
    67 - 6
    This means gear shift pattern is R N 1 2 3 4 5 6.
    I also found drum does not move when moving gear stick into neutral at speed. Clutch is just moved to "off" position. Drum will shift into the most appropriate gear for the speed as car slows down when gear stick is in neutral. Confirmed all of the above by test driving with diagnostics attached.




    Cheers TK. The three digit numbers - drum rotation in degrees?
    If so, then the drum rotates 2.5 revolutions between reverse and sixth gears (struggling to visualise how that works for the selectors of the disengaged gears).
    Reason I want to know is to figure if it can be operated manually (via positive stop mechanism) which isn't looking very likely.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    Cheers TK. The three digit numbers - drum rotation in degrees?
    If so, then the drum rotates 2.5 revolutions between reverse and sixth gears (struggling to visualise how that works for the selectors of the disengaged gears).
    Reason I want to know is to figure if it can be operated manually (via positive stop mechanism) which isn't looking very likely.
    Not degrees but raw data whatever that is. Shift drum turns just below a full 360 degree rotation because at least two of the grooves are not continuous around the drum. Watch video in first post and you will see.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Not degrees but raw data whatever that is. Shift drum turns just below a full 360 degree rotation because at least two of the grooves are not continuous around the drum. Watch video in first post and you will see.
    That's more what I expected. Positive stop manual operation will only be possible if the angle of drum rotation is exactly the same for each gearchange. How to find out?
    (The 'raw data' - whatever it is, isn't showing equal increments for each gearchange. Is raw data linear?)

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