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Thread: 450 Transmission noise becoming unbearable

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinaldo_is_spam View Post
    me either ?!

    Must need to be registered I guess (which I'm not , nor likely to)
    That must be the cause. Now making a second attempt:
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  2. #22
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    That bearing's knackered.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    That bearing's knackered.
    I concur .....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Why do you need that info? Out of curiosity?

    [COLOR=#272A34][FONT=Helvetica Neue]Using my WinStar diagnostics kit I have read raw data from drum turning angle sensor and corresponding gear position:
    TAS - gear
    978 - R
    897 - N
    822 - 1
    722 - 2
    555 - 3
    352 - 4
    226 - 5
    67 - 6
    This means gear shift pattern is R N 1 2 3 4 5 6.
    I also found drum does not move when moving gear stick into neutral at speed. Clutch is just moved to "off" position. Drum will shift into the most appropriate gear for the speed as car slows down when gear stick is in neutral. Confirmed all of the above by test driving with diagnostics attached.

    Whatever the 'units' are, the divisions are: R>N = 81, N>1st = 75, 1st>2nd = 100, 2nd>3rd = 167, 3rd>4th 203, 4th>5th =126, 5th>6th = 159.

    No rhyme or reason, merely what the gearbox needs it seems. The largest drum rotation (as suggested by M) is indeed between 3rd>4th. There's no way that can be made to work with a mechanical positive stop.

    If anyone has knowledge that contradicts the above assumption of those 'units' being a synonym for drum angle rotation - please sing out.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Confirmed all of the above by test driving with diagnostics attached.
    Quote Originally Posted by reinaldo_is_spam View Post
    Sounds safe
    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    Safe enough along a farm track.
    It's getting into 6th on a farm track that has me flummoxed. Perhaps Deeside farm tracks are smoother than the others.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    It's getting into 6th on a farm track that has me flummoxed. Perhaps Deeside farm tracks are smoother than the others.
    My Cdi enters 6th at a rather moderate speed.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  7. #27
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    Noise is getting more than unbearable so this morning I ordered three 6304 2RS bearings costing me 7.84 inclusive of delivery. The seals will come off provided I can confirm they will be adequately lubed by the transmission oil.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  8. #28
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    Greetings, Before fitting the new bearings, why not remove the seals, clean the bearings out, apply fresh grease and put the seals back? Quite possibly the seals will keep any metal bits that break free contained within the bearing saving the gears from being damaged?? Or, remove just one seal, so the remaining seal will help retain some ATF in the bearing???? All depends I guess, on whether the bearing is above or below the oil level?
    Cheers, Ian.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    The seals will come off provided I can confirm they will be adequately lubed by the transmission oil.
    ATF typically has an ISO viscosity of 37cSt. A SAE90 gear oil is typically ISO 150. Grease will typically have a base oil viscosity circa 100 - 200cSt, the higher end being found in greases intended for use in higher temperature applications.

    Automatic transmissions have bearings too and I've not heard of them using sealed bearings. Ford developed a manual transmission (MT75?) to run with ATF. Might be worth investigating if it employed sealed bearings or just ran them in ATF. (I can check exact Ford box designation for you if required).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    For that reason I intend to renew fitting unsealed bearings. Can be sourced for as little as 1.57 each including delivery.
    I'm pretty sure sealed bearings were fitted simply because the shafts are so far above the level of the oil that they wouldn't get much in the way of splash lubrication. It wouldn't make sense to fit sealed bearings otherwise, since they are more expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    Whatever the 'units' are, the divisions are: R>N = 81, N>1st = 75, 1st>2nd = 100, 2nd>3rd = 167, 3rd>4th 203, 4th>5th =126, 5th>6th = 159.

    No rhyme or reason, merely what the gearbox needs it seems. The largest drum rotation (as suggested by M) is indeed between 3rd>4th. There's no way that can be made to work with a mechanical positive stop.

    If anyone has knowledge that contradicts the above assumption of those 'units' being a synonym for drum angle rotation - please sing out.

    Judging from the range of the numbers I'd say it's very likely to be a raw 10bit ADC value (i.e. 2^10 discrete values, 0-1023). The sensor is just a potentiometer AFAIK so a digitised voltage value would make sense. Assuming the potentiometer is reasonably linear (and something designed for angular sensing should be) then it certainly suggests angles are not equal. This could be confirmed by counting the quadrature encoder pulses from the motor, though you'd need either a basic digital scope or make a simple decoder using e.g. an arduino.

    I had a similar thought to you some time ago, using a simple escapement mechanism as used on motorcycle gearboxes to manually select gears. I think this could still be made to work with a small variation in drum angles, though actually fabricating it would be interesting, and getting the Smart ECU to play ball with manually actuated gears and clutch would likely be quite a challenge.

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