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Thread: Speed Related Vibration Rumble Puzzle

  1. #21
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    If you’re on Facebook,

    https://www.facebook.com/fq101/?fref=ts

    Then scroll down a couple of stories to it
    You're so money supermarket and you don't even know it!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Paul
    Pure 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Feb 08 - sold
    Passion 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Mar 09 - sold
    Passion 1998 T, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Apr 10 - sold
    Cabrio 2001 Y, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Jul 10 Replaced Oct 16

  3. #23
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    Both left side bearings on input shaft and cluster gear shaft are same rubber sealed bearings 6205 2RS. They fail when the grease dries out. Owners that ignore the unbearable howling bearing noise will suffer the kind of damage shown in the previously posted photo.

    My transmission in September last year. I replaced all six bearings and fitted only open bearings lubed by transmission oil.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolsen View Post
    My transmission in September last year. I replaced all six bearings and fitted only open bearings lubed by transmission oil.
    I've never touched GETRAG 431, but I have rebuilt a couple of T5WC

    The bearings in the 431 don't look undersized, but why they would be sealed as standard is completely beyond me

    They don't look like conical bearings, so how does it not blow itself apart?

    Those shifter forks aren't under engineered either, no wonder the box is so heavy

    It's also interesting to see how the Dual Clutch boxes used by BMW and Ferrari are a direct development from the Smart box

    http://www.getrag.com/en/company/pre...ail_15233.html
    Paul
    Pure 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Feb 08 - sold
    Passion 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Mar 09 - sold
    Passion 1998 T, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Apr 10 - sold
    Cabrio 2001 Y, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Jul 10 Replaced Oct 16

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKKid35 View Post
    I've never touched GETRAG 431, but I have rebuilt a couple of T5WC

    The bearings in the 431 don't look undersized, but why they would be sealed as standard is completely beyond me

    They don't look like conical bearings, so how does it not blow itself apart?

    Those shifter forks aren't under engineered either, no wonder the box is so heavy

    It's also interesting to see how the Dual Clutch boxes used by BMW and Ferrari are a direct development from the Smart box

    http://www.getrag.com/en/company/pre...ail_15233.html
    Getrag has got the model number cocked up. Ours is a 450, not a 431.

    Reason for chosing sealed bearings has to do with bearing life calculations. The two 6205 bearings on left side of transmission have highest loading. Transmission oil is not pure since no filter although the built in magnet will over time catch most ferromagnetic particles. A sealed grease lubed bearing has longer calculated life as long as the grease does not dry out.

    Above is magnet in my transmission. It is located in bottom of transmission and measures about 50 mm in diameter.

    Sectional view of the 450 transmission. Note sealed bearings on left side.

    Correction:

    This transmission has three sealed bearings.

    My 2002 Smart 450 Cdi transmission had the following deep race ball bearings:

    Input shaft.
    RHS 6005. LHS 6205 RS.

    Cluster gear shaft.
    RHS 6304 RS. LHS 6205 RS.

    Differential.
    RHS 6009. LHS 6008.

    RHS and LHS viewed from rear towards front of car.


    Above image shows a pitted and worn out 6305 2RS* bearing with rubber seal removed. Came out of Dieselkiki's Smart 450.

    *) 2RS means rubber seals both sides. Number "2" is often omitted as can cause confusion and be read as part of main bearing number.
    Last edited by tolsen; 11-04-2018 at 09:55 AM.
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  6. #26
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    431 is confusingly the Getrag model number, not related to the Smart model number 450

    Brilliant bearing photo, and quite concerning too

    I would much rather have open bearings than sealed

    I still don't understand how it deals with the lateral forces without using conical bearings
    Paul
    Pure 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Feb 08 - sold
    Passion 2000 W, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Mar 09 - sold
    Passion 1998 T, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Apr 10 - sold
    Cabrio 2001 Y, LHD 599cc - Engine Rebuilt Jul 10 Replaced Oct 16

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKKid35 View Post
    I still don't understand how it deals with the lateral forces without using conical bearings
    SKF about Deep groove ball bearings
    Deep groove ball bearings are particularly versatile. They are suitable for high and very high speeds, accommodate radial and axial loads in both directions and require little maintenance. Because deep groove ball bearings are the most widely used bearing type, they are available from SKF in many designs, variants and sizes.


    http://www.skf.com/uk/products/beari...ngs/index.html
    Drives a Smart Cdi - 65 to 85 MPG

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKKid35 View Post
    So perhaps a better question is - how do I identify which wheel bearing is faulty, without replacing each of them in turn?
    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    Same going on here. Suspect it is NS but it was replaced recently. Just running until enough play develops to ascertain which side is shot. MOT next week could be interesting...
    MOT duly failed - OS front bearing. No play or roughness - but a pronounced noise when wheel spun.

  9. #29
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    Mar 2012
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    Burnley
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinger View Post
    MOT duly failed - OS front bearing. No play or roughness - but a pronounced noise when wheel spun.
    I didn't think noise was a valid reason to fail. Seems odd to me.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
    I didn't think noise was a valid reason to fail. Seems odd to me.
    Me neither. Noise = fail. Play = advisory. Everyday a schoolday.

    And that's before the MOT changes scheduled for May. Diesel owners who removed DPFs and swirl flaps have big bills ahead. Still, the rest of us will breathe easier....
    Last edited by pinger; 17-04-2018 at 06:18 PM.

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